Episode 102: Building the Freshman Class

Transcript for Episode 102: Building the Freshman Class

• [0:00:07] BT: A Cancer Foundation founder, a Disney-Pixar voice actor, a gold medalist in the British Biology Olympiad, and an internationally ranked pinball player.

  [0:00:17] BHA: That's just a few of the experiences that make up Bucknell University's first-year students. This wide-ranging mix is no accident. It's the result of an admissions process that values variety, as well as accomplishment.

  [0:00:30] BT: In this episode of College Admissions Insider, we'll take a look at the decisions that shape an incoming college class. I'm Brooke Thames from Bucknell University.

  [0:00:37] BHA: And I'm Becca Haupt Aldredge, also from Bucknell. Today, we'll chat about the array of considerations that go into building a well-rounded class and its impact on your college experience.

  [0:00:47] BT: Our guest is a familiar voice on the podcast. Kevin Mathes is vice president of enrollment management & dean of admissions, and a Bucknell graduate of the class of 2007. Welcome back, Kevin.

  [0:00:58] KM: Thanks, Brooke and Becca. It's really nice to be back on the podcast.

  [0:01:03] BHA: For those who might be hearing from you for the first time in this episode, can you give us a quick rundown of your role here at Bucknell?

  [0:01:09] KM: Sure. As vice president of enrollment, my main job there is to report to the president and work with the leadership team at Bucknell. In that role, I'm really helping our team think about what is the future of Bucknell? What do prospective students think about higher education? What are the things we want to think about potentially changing for the future? Then, helping to execute strategy for the admissions and financial aid teams. Overseeing both of those departments and thinking about how those two areas intersect. How do we help students not only navigate the admissions process, but also the financial aid process?

  Then as dean of admissions, it's really running the admissions team. That's the head of the admissions office operation. Together, putting all that, it's leading strategy, helping to develop what are our plans for the future and how do we bring in great students every year to Bucknell?

  [0:01:57] BT: You've been working in Bucknell's Office of Admissions for nine years, which means you've helped curate about just as many first-year classes.

  [0:02:05] KM: Mm-hmm.

  [0:02:06] BT: I'm curious about all the different considerations that go into building such a robust group. I know students' academic interests play a part, so do you go into it with an idea of how many students there should be in each major, or discipline?

  [0:02:22] KM: I don't have targets by individual major, or discipline. What I would say is as a three-college university, we do get goals by each individual college. At a higher level, we do, Brooke. It's how many students do we want in the College of Arts and Sciences, the College of Engineering, and the Freeman College of Management. At that high level, we do have a sense of how many students do we want to enroll based on capacity?

  And when we talk about capacity, we're thinking about classroom space and faculty bandwidth. Because as an institution that values close relationships with faculty and students, and staff and students, we really try hard not to overburden, right? We don't want a department that has so many students that their advising load is a 100 students to one faculty member, and then we're missing that interaction with the faculty and the students. We don't want to put them in classrooms where they need to be with 200 people every year for four years, because we don't have the right number of faculty to do smaller sections. That's what drives some of our decision making is what do we have capacity to do to help us then think about who we're trying to attract to the University. That sets the first goal.

  Then after that, what I think about is each college should essentially be a microcosm of the University at large. When we think about the Bucknell experience, who are the thousand-plus first year students that come in every year? Then to the degree that we can, how does that makeup get represented in each of the colleges? Because when you're getting into your major and you're spending a lot of time with those students…particularly, I think, as you get older — junior and senior year — when you're more intensive in your major…we want to make sure that that robust Bucknell experience is happening in every college. We don't want it siloed, or we don't want a homogeneous college where everybody's the same suddenly, and you're like, “I thought I came to Bucknell for this great, robust experience. And now I'm in a college where I'm not really getting challenged in ways and thinking differently.”

  That's what we think about with some of the not only academic interests, but also what do students do outside of the classroom? Where do they come from? How do they think? Those are all things that come into play.

  [0:04:24] BHA: And so, getting into some of that, what tends to stand out in applications that makes your team say, “This would be a great addition to Bucknell's class?”

  [0:04:32] KM: It can go into a variety of ways. I would say, first and foremost, it is about the academic piece. I would be hard pressed to find an admissions office in the country that doesn't say the first thing is making sure that someone's academically prepared. I think that that's the first pass of the application is how do we find students that have the academic background, that have demonstrated they can take on the rigor of a place like Bucknell and perform well. So that when we get here, they know they might be challenged and find their way after a year or two, but we know that they're going to succeed.

  I think part of it is, a good addition to the class would be, "Oh, have we found a student who has challenged themselves academically in a way that aligns with some of the areas of study they're thinking of?" I always like to give the example of engineering. If you're thinking about being an engineer and you have opportunity to take college-level coursework in math and science, have you done that? Are you going the humanities route? Have you done things like college-level English, or history, or languages? Part of that great addition is seeing that you've pushed yourself in areas that interest you.

  Then after that, it becomes bigger. It becomes about being in a residential community where you're going to be interacting with your peers, the faculty and the staff. That's when it gets outside of academics. It's when we know that we're bringing you into a community that you're living and learning together. It's about finding the students who are open to people from all over the world. We are a global campus in terms of enrolling students from countries outside of the U.S. Students from all over the U.S. I mean, if you're a traveler like I am and have experienced different parts of the U.S., our cultures in the U.S. are very different based on what part of the region you go to.

  It's about activities that students do. We want students who will take advantage of our arts programs, but we also have almost 30 Division I athletic teams. We want to find students who will tap into the entire experience and also, because of that variety of experience, will help students experience new people, new ideas and thoughts — and help them grow as individuals as they go through their four years here.

  [0:06:40] BT: At Bucknell, each of those students — their academic preparedness, their experiences, their cultural backgrounds and differences — those are all weighed individually. How do you balance reviewing applicants as those individuals, while also considering their contribution to the class as a whole?

  [0:06:56] KM: Sure, Brooke. That's a big question, because I think one of the things that as an admissions office we're trying to do is honor the individual. Who is the student? Where do they come from? Thinking about things like, the different types of high school students go to. First-generation college students, where they don't have maybe a parent who's been to a four-year institution, so they don't have that person that has been through the experience and help them navigate it. I also think about students who, what if their first language isn't English? That they grow up in a bilingual household and they're a translator for their family? You want to honor all the commitments they have and who they are.

  To your question about how does that weigh in when you're looking at the whole class, it's then thinking about, how does that person's lived experience and all that they've done contribute to the greater society of Bucknell, so to speak? How does that individual and all the things that they've done bring themselves into Bucknell, and share their story, and share their intelligence, and share their expertise that then other students get to experience them and learn from them? Again, I think it goes back to that growth. How does it help everybody grow and move forward and become a citizen of the world? I think about that a lot. How are we preparing students to be leaders and citizens of the greater world, and how that's changed over…I mean, I even think of, you mentioned at the beginning, I'm a 2007 graduate…how much it's changed since I graduated, where the world is so interconnected.

  And making sure that those folks who have that individual identity, that you can see that person is going to contribute in positive ways through…It could be being a really great hallmate; being a student who's involved in very supportive in student clubs and organizations; somebody who demonstrates leadership; someone who is deeply intellectual and wants to do research. All of those things help, I think, motivate and spur on other students. It's, “Oh, I met this person, and I really enjoy what they're bringing to the table. What can I do? How can I do something different in my own experience?" Then I think it helps elevate everyone.

  [0:09:06] BHA: You've walked us through the theory and why it's important to shape the class in the ways that we do to create communities that are compelling and enhance the academic experience in the classroom and outside of it. Can you walk us through a little bit about how you do that? What does your decision process look like? How are you modeling and tracking what that final enrollment will look like come move in day?

  [0:09:33] KM: I think what's important to your question, Becca, is to let all of our listeners know that I don't keep a tally sheet. I think a lot of the myth-busting around admissions is around the sense that we're keeping such detailed track of everything, that if you don't hit the magic thing that we need, that you're not going to get in. When I think about this idea of how do we do it, what are the numbers that we're looking for, what I would say is, I think, myself and the senior members of my team that help me get to the final decision-making period, you start to pick up on themes. Because as you review more and more applications, you start to read what your team has distilled, what are the key elements of the application that they're trying to pull out to tell you about.

  You start to see, one year you might have a theme of students who are really into service work. It's not bad to have a lot of students who want to help the world. That's a good thing. It’s good to have those students on your campus. I'll share one thing I've noticed this year with the incoming class is there's a real theme of entrepreneurship. Again, we have an entrepreneurship center. It's great. We want to invest in those students. Did I do that on purpose? Not really. I mean, we want students to have those qualities.

  I think the reason it's difficult for me to answer it and for families to understand is that at the offer-of-admission level, the class can end up being very different than the one you enroll. Because you could put out all the offers and say, "We know it's going to be an amazing class," but you never know each year, which student is going to say, yeah, so you could end up one year with, what if you end up with a really artsy class, or athletic class, or student government that everybody wants to do it.

  The hope is that you've given enough offers across all the things that you want, that you're going to get a little bit of everything. But it doesn't mean that some years you don't have that one-off, where suddenly, a group of students who are in a thematic category, actually a lot more of them say yes than you anticipated. And then you end up with a class that generates some of that feeling that like, “Oh, this class has that feeling to it.” Because ultimately, we're trying to do the wider variety. Like I said, you're putting out a lot of offers and then whoever takes it is what you're doing.

  [0:11:49] BHA: It sounds like building a well-rounded class really starts by building a well-rounded admit pool.

  [0:11:56] KM: Yes.

  [0:11:56] BHA: What role does Early Decision play in shaping that class and making sure that academic areas of interest, personality types, hobbies and interests are represented broadly?

  [0:12:10] KM: Sure. Really, Early Decision serves as the foundation of the class, like you said, Becca. When I think about how does that impact what happens in later rounds, it's what I think you're implying, which is, "Oh, if we've seen a lot of students in Early Decision who want to pursue a certain college, or degree program…" If we have a good representation in Early Decision, not full, we never fill everything in early. What it might mean is, "Oh, we don't need as many fill-in-the-blank college, or major students." We're going to look maybe within that college with a different academic area of interest, or a different college altogether.

  I think the same can be said for when you think about the intangibles of the class. As you put together the Early Decision pool, again, thinking about all the offerings Bucknell has outside of the classroom, have we in Early Decision, found a gravitation towards something, where then in Regular, we'll try to flip it, right? I mean, again, as you build, that's what you're trying to do is if you want the well-rounded student body who will take advantage of everything, if in Early, you somehow ended up attracting a subset, you're going to then use Regular to say, “Well, I maybe want to try to find some students more interested in X, or I want them to go do Y.” That helps you then, I think, in Regular, have a more targeted approach to how you're thinking about who you're looking to admit at that point.

  [0:13:34] BT: Kevin, what I'm hearing is that the admissions process and shaping that well-rounded class, at the end of the day, is a very delicate process at the application admit phase. You've mentioned that sometimes that presents certain challenges. What would you say is the biggest challenge involved in building a really robust, well-rounded class?

  [0:13:55] KM: Bucknell is the third institution I've worked at professionally. I've worked for a varying level of selective schools. I think, I would say, personally the biggest challenge is deciding between great and great. Which is when you're getting into selective college admissions, it's when you know you have a robust pool of students who would be really great at your institution, would enrich it, would be great in academics, great community members, but you know you don't have enough seats for all of them. That's, I think, the biggest challenge.

  I would say, it's for my team, too. Because any one of us who takes the phone call or the email from the student who's upset with a waitlist, or potential deny of admission, it doesn't mean that they weren't prepared or good. It means that for what we wanted, or what we were looking for that year, it maybe just didn't work out. That's, I think, what's the biggest challenge is when you know you have great students and you're saying, "We only can admit so many." You can be splitting hairs in terms of who you're eventually deciding to say yes to.

  [0:15:02] BT: Obviously, among all of those great students, you want the breadth of experiences that we've been talking about. But you also want one commonality between them all, right, which is that they're a good fit for Bucknell's overall culture. What makes a student and therefore, a whole class feel distinctly Bucknellian?

  [0:15:18] KM: Yeah, Brooke. This is that fit question, I think, that people ask. "Fit" can be a tricky term, because it can seem like you're biased towards a certain person. But when I think about this idea of a Bucknellian, who is it, who comes out of Bucknell and what does that mean to the world? I think about it as someone who is curious. When I say curious, I mean that not just academically. I think that's the default answer, is folks think curious means, “Oh, I show curiosity academically.” I think it means curiosity in terms of what students choose to get involved in when they're on campus. I think it's curiosity in getting to know people.

  Because ultimately, you're not going to know everybody in your graduating class. It's over a thousand students. Every year, over a thousand students come in. You're not going to know every single person on this campus, but that curiosity gets to know people and who they are and how they impact your classroom experience, or your extracurricular experience is really important. Curious would be one.

  I would say that Bucknellians are transformative. I think that's one of the things that we come out of this education with is that we're not afraid to take on the challenges of the world or industry and transform them. I think part of that comes from Bucknell being a transformative experience. When you have it and you've experienced it, I think you want to share it. I think about that for Bucknellians.

  Then the other one… always think in threes. I would say, the other one would be supportive/collaborative. I've always felt that Bucknellians — I say this to students when I see them and talk to them — Bucknellians are really driven. You didn't get into Bucknell by slacking off in high school. You were driven. You wanted to do well. I always say, that doesn't go away when you get to college. If you've been that person, you don't come to college and say like, “I'm going to kick back and relax now.”

  What I love about Bucknellians is that that drive is there, but so is the support and collaboration of your peers. I still see it years after graduating from Bucknell. It's that old saying, "Rising tides lift all boats." I've always felt every Bucknellian wants every Bucknellian to succeed. I want to see you succeed, because I want to succeed. We all want to succeed. We want Bucknell to be known as an amazing place that produces great people. When we all do really well, it just enhances the entire institution. I find that students want to help each other with study groups, or working on projects together, collaborating across different colleges, or academic departments, coming up with research ideas that aren't focused on just their area of study. I see that and I hear those stories. To me, that is also a Bucknellian.

  [0:18:00] BHA: What I'm hearing is a Bucknellian has this curiosity, they're invested in this transformative experience, and they're collaborative — maybe even words that you would use to describe your own Bucknell experience. What does it feel like to now be the person on the other side of the desk, shaping that experience for future Bucknellians?

  [0:18:17] KM: In a word, weighty, if that makes sense. I feel a weight to do right by Bucknell, but I also feel lucky and fortunate to be the one that gets to help shape the future. It's an immense responsibility in my eyes, because I feel like I am honoring Bucknell for what it is, and what it wants to become. I feel like I am representing all Bucknellians in the process. At times it can feel heavy on your shoulders. But then, every year when it comes together, I get to say to myself, “Wow, this is just…What a group of students.” I mean, you think you'll get used to it that every year you'll be like, “Oh, what a great class last year. I hope we find one just as good.” Every year, to read the stories and see who picked us, it amazes me and it makes me so grateful to be in the position and get to do the work I do.

  [0:19:16] BT: I think that's really wonderfully exemplified in something that you do every year, which is during Orientation, you give a speech to the first-year class, highlighting their array of accomplishments, experiences, backgrounds — which shows how important that breadth is to you. Personally, why is that?

  [0:19:33] KM: I'll be honest, Brooke, I started doing it…Originally, my thought was to do it because a vice president I worked for in my career did it at the institution she oversaw. I said to myself, “Oh, wouldn't that be cool if I'm ever in the seat to do that?” But when I got into the position and I started doing it, for me, it became more personal, which is I wanted every first-year student in the audience to hear something about themselves, to know that we saw them, we heard them, we recognized them. Then the really personal side of it is when I was in my own experience, I was much, much more shy as a college student when I first started.

  I think the other big reason I do it is because I want them to connect. Coming into a new environment after, I mean, think about K-12 education, the majority of the time, you're with the same people. This is one of the first times you're going out into the world and you have to start over in a way. You have to make friends. You have to create connections. The other reason I do it is I want them to hear that there's other people that are like them. Maybe not in every way, shape and form. But when you hear an anecdote I share, or a statistic I share and it can be like, “Oh, I'm one of that group. My people are here to some degree,” and I think that's really important, because I just want all of our incoming first year students to feel the connection to the community and to Bucknell.

  Ultimately, too, it goes back to honoring them. They spent time applying and pouring themselves into an application and I want them to know that my team and I actually read it. We actually saw who they were and we brought them here on purpose.

  [0:21:13] BHA: Kevin, thanks so much for spending the time. You have a big important job to do and you're doing right by so many Bucknellians past, present and future.

  [0:21:23] KM: Thanks so much for having me. It was so much fun to talk with both of you again.

  [0:21:28] BT: Thanks to everyone out there for listening. If you're a fan of the podcast, please take a moment to rate, subscribe and share this episode with the students and families in your life.

  [0:21:35] BHA: We'll be back with another new episode in a few weeks. In the meantime, you can send your questions, comments and episode ideas to podcast@bucknell.edu. We read every note you send.

  [0:21:45] BT: Finally, you're invited to follow Bucknell on your favorite social media apps. Just look for @BucknellU on Instagram, Facebook, X, YouTube and TikTok. You can also follow our student-run Instagram account, which is @IAmRayBucknell.

  [0:22:00] BHA: Until next time, keep reaching for your dreams and your dream school.