Episode 55: What NOT to Do When Applying to College

Episode 55

• Episode 55 Transcript

  [00:00:07] BT: You don't have to look very far to find tons of guidance on just about every aspect of your life — from social media videos on what to wear and articles about keeping healthy to podcasts on how to maximize your chances on getting into the school of your dreams.

  [00:00:22] BHA: On College Admissions Insider, we focus on providing expert advice on what you can do to make the most of your college admissions journey. But today we're turning the podcast on its head a bit. I'm Becca Haupt Aldridge from Bucknell University, and on this episode, we're talking about what not to do during the college admissions process.

  [00:00:39] BT: I'm Brooke Thames, also from Bucknell. Our don'ts will include mistakes to avoid on the college application, who you shouldn't ask for a recommendation letter, what not to forget after applying and more.

  [00:00:52] BHA: Joining us is a familiar voice, Kevin Mathes, assistant vice president and dean of admissions at Bucknell. You probably remember Kevin from past episodes, like “Applying Test Optional,” “A Guide to Early Decision,” and “A Deep Dive into GPA.”

  [00:01:05] BT: But Kevin won't be the only one offering advice. In the spirit of don'ts, we can't forget that one of our hosts is also an expert on admissions. Becca is a senior assistant director of admissions here at Bucknell and also has tons of great insight that she shares with prospective students on a regular basis. Are we ready to dive in?

  [00:01:24] KM: I am. I'm glad to be back.

  [00:01:26] BHA: Let's do it.

  [00:01:28] BT: Okay. Let's just start right off the bat with what is probably the most important aspect of the college admissions process, the application. Application deadlines vary from school to school. At Bucknell, they're due on Nov. 15 for Early Decision I and Jan. 15 for Early Decision II and regular decision. I have a feeling that there are a couple of big don'ts when it comes to getting those applications in on time.

  [00:01:51] KM: I think the biggest don't is don't procrastinate. When myself, Becca, the rest of our team give advice to students, that is one of the top pieces of advice we give is don't procrastinate getting your applications done. You have to think about the timelines you're using. You have to think about the due dates of all the applications you're submitting. And make sure you're giving yourself enough time to really reflect and put your best foot forward.

  [00:02:17] BT: And so, let's talk a little bit more about those applications and all of those deadlines. Some schools have their own individual application that students submit. But there are also ways of applying to many schools at once, like through the Common Application. Before we talk about things to avoid there, Becca, can you first give us a clear idea of what an application like that even looks like?

  [00:02:39] BHA: Definitely. Bucknell is a school that accepts the Common Application and also something called the Coalition Application. Both are one application that you end up sending to multiple schools. And so that application collects things like basic demographic information, your home address, your date of birth, information on where you go to high school, or if you've attended multiple high schools, or maybe are taking a gap year.

  You also have the opportunity to self-disclose your senior class schedule, to complete an activities section that tells us a little bit more about how you spend your time and to submit your essay, which includes a variety of prompts that are actually quite broad. You can write about pretty close to anything and get it to fit into one of the provided prompts.

  There's also a spot on the application for additional information, which is a great place to provide any context that a school might need when getting to know you, and spots for your recommendation letters and transcripts to be uploaded by a teacher or school counselor.

  [00:03:37] BT: That's a lot of information that sounds like it's going to multiple schools at the same time. But are there also places where a student might answer a question that a particular school asks that another school won't?

  [00:03:48] BHA: Yes, some schools will have a supplement as part of their Common Application or Coalition Application. And so that supplement will be specific to a particular school. It might be an extra essay or short answer question. And then in those sections, they would only be sent to the school that's requiring them.

  [00:04:05] BT: Gotcha. And so in those instances where a student may be entering different information or responses for different schools, having a detailed eye is pretty important, right?

  [00:04:15] KM: Absolutely. We always recommend to students that they are proofreading. Maybe get one or two sets of eyes to look at what they're submitting before they submit it, just to make sure that everything that they are submitting is going to the right institution.

  As you just heard from Becca, a lot of information — the basics, the background information — it is going to be the same for everybody. And that's going to go everywhere. But I think what happens is, sometimes, when you get to those institution-specific questions, there are some that are very similar. And students will say, "Oh, this is a response that I can edit a little bit and I can send it to Bucknell." But we don't want to see is that you do that and then forget to change the school name so that you're applying to us but you're highlighting a different institution. And I think that's where that critical eye comes into play, where it's an easy mistake to make. But you want to make sure you're being detail-oriented so it doesn't happen.

  [00:05:07] BT: Right. Anyone who's ever applied to a job knows the importance of changing those little details on those application materials. And I love that advice, especially as a writer, of having multiple people proofread before it gets to the person who's finally going to have their eyes on your application.

  And as the real people who read these applications every year, I'd love to hear more about what you tend to see in some of these different sections of the application, especially when differentiating between a great application and a not so great one. Let's tackle the supplemental questions first that we mentioned. What should students not do in crafting those responses?

  [00:05:44] KM: For me, it goes back to my very first piece of advice on this podcast, which is don't procrastinate. I feel, as admission readers, when we're diving into applications, one of the easiest ways to see discrepancies in writing is looking at an essay that's been worked on for a while versus a supplemental essay that might have been done a day, or two, or even hours before the application deadline. Because a lot of times, the writing quality is a little bit different. How it’s approached is a little bit different. And I think that's a mistake that students make.

  I also feel that part of this comes from the fact that some students don't map out how many supplements they need to write. For Bucknell, we have one supplemental question. But some schools ask for one, two, three, four — and they can vary in length. And I think that, if students don't map out the appropriate time, they become rushed, and they're not as well done as they should be.

  [00:06:37] BHA: To add to Kevin's point there, when a school is asking a supplemental question, it's something that they really want to know. So you want to make sure that you're spending time on it. For example, at Bucknell, we ask you to tell us about why you've chosen your intended major, even if you might be undecided. That gives readers a sense of your thought process. Maybe why you love STEM, or why you're curious about management, or what shape to your decision to pursue your passion for the arts.

  In that supplement, telling us that you want to major in math because you like math doesn't always give us the depth that we're looking for. And that's something that I tend to see when students leave their supplements to the last minute.

  [00:07:14] BT: Those are great points, Kevin and Becca, especially about explaining and going in depth about why it is that you've chosen to go to this school, or picked this major, or are interested in the things that this particular school offers. And I wonder about how that detail goes into those extracurriculars that students have. Are there ways of filling out that section that might not clearly or accurately capture an applicant's activities and experiences while in high school?

  [00:07:38] KM: Yeah. For the extracurricular or engagement section, as you're filling that out, I think a mistake that students make is assuming we know everything. There are thousands of high schools across the United States. And then you factor in the rest of the world, and that's a lot of places for us to try to know and understand intimately. And I think what we need students to do is make sure that they're not abbreviating or using acronyms that we're not familiar with.

  There are some big ones that I think a lot of us know — like NHS we typically know as National Honor Society. But every year, I feel that we read applications where a student has put an acronym, and it's not something we're familiar with, and then there's no explanation. So we don't actually know what the activity is. We know it's something the student likes. It's something that they're passionate about that they want to pursue. But we actually don't know what it is or how to think about it in terms of their identity or how they might contribute to our college campus. I think acronyms are a big one to be careful about using them. It's better to err on the side of listing out what it is rather than abbreviating it.

  I feel the other thing that students should really think about for a moment is that, under each activity, there is some space to explain what it is. This is an opportunity to add to your application. On the one hand, if you think about something like playing a sport, you can list your position. But it also could be that you expand it to talk about if you've had a leadership role. Maybe you've been captain of the team, co-captain. Maybe your team has made it into a league, or district, or state playoff. Think about it for the arts, if you've done any advanced singing. I know here in Pennsylvania, there's a music competition you can go at different levels all the way up to the state. There are opportunities there for students to tell us more than just, “I do this activity.” If there's anything that you want to add and expand a little bit further about your engagement, there's an opportunity to do that.

  And then the last piece I always think about is that, in this section, students are able to share a little bit about the number of hours per week and the number of weeks per year they're involved in an organization. And for us, it's just a way to understand how students spend their time outside of the structured school day. On the one hand, I think that sometimes students undersell themselves because they don't take enough time to think about how dedicated they are to an organization. But on the other hand, sometimes students make the mistake of overestimating. Because when we look at activities and see that somebody's doing an organization for 10 or 15 hours a week, if they list eight activities like that, that's not really humanly possible.

  We know that they're busy. We know that these are things they care about. But you also want to make sure you're being realistic about the time that you spend. And I think that helps us then understand quality versus quantity. That's a question that always comes up: “How many activities? What should I be doing?” And a lot of times we always say, "What do you like? What do you enjoy doing and are you dedicating your time to that?"

  I think that's a section where we can help understand that, "Oh, this student has two, or three, or four activities. But the time commitment is very deep." And that's why they're not going to have a long list. Whereas another student might communicate that they're exploring all their interests because their list might be seven, eight or nine things, but it's varied in the amount of hours per year, the time of year, the years they do it in high school. These are all things that students can take a minute to really think about and figure out, "How do I want to communicate myself to an admission office by utilizing this space really well?"

  [00:10:59] BT: Yeah, that's really awesome to note, especially since there are so many activities that might be offered at different schools, like sports, or National Honor Society. But an individual student's experience is going to vary, whether that's the time that they've spent, leadership opportunities they've taken or just more detail about how that activity has shaped their high school experience.

  Outside of those sections that we've already covered, are there any other common places on the application where students can get tripped up?

  [00:11:26] BHA: One place that I see that tends to be overlooked is the additional information section. If there's something that you really want your admissions reader or admissions counselor to know about you, but you don't necessarily want to spend your whole essay on it or, perhaps, it wasn't the most appropriate thing to fill in to your activities section and might not make the most sense, using the additional information section is a great section to use. Sometimes there's a family situation, an obstacle you've overcome, or a special passion, talent, or hobby that you really want us to know about — or that club acronym and why that club is particularly important to you — this is a great section to use.

  Keep in mind that, nine times out of ten, you don't need to write us a whole extra essay in your additional information section. Usually, a couple of sentences will suffice in giving us the context that we need in order to read your application and to better know who you are and the lens from which you view the world and the college search process.

  [00:12:18] BT: Now let's switch gears a bit to talking about some of the other people involved in a student's application process. Starting with recommenders. Typically, recommendations come from teachers, or counselors, or others who are close to the student and can speak to their intellect and accomplishments. But I suspect there is such a thing as a bad recommendation for a college application. What are our don'ts for that piece?

  [00:12:41] KM: Brooke, you're absolutely right. There are such things as bad recommendations, and I tend to tell this story when I'm out meeting students or their families: One year, I read an application where I opened a teacher recommendation, and the first line the teacher said was, "I told this student I wouldn't write them a strong letter of recommendation and that they should probably ask somebody else. And the student said, ‘That's okay. I still want you to write it.’ ” It was not a positive recommendation.

  One piece of advice is, when you ask somebody, if they openly tell you they don't think they can support you in a positive way, you might want to rethink asking that person for a letter of recommendation. Part of it is really thinking through who can advocate for you in the admissions process. Who can be a positive support to your candidacy? How can they talk about you in a good way?

  I do think that one of the things we notice as a team at Bucknell that is sometimes tricky for us to work through is when a student applies to a particular program or college, and the recommendations aren't close to that area. And I'll give you an example of that. You know at Bucknell, we have a College of Engineering. With engineering, students tend to be very STEM-oriented — a lot of science- and math-based classes. And if we get an application with letters of recommendation from a history and an English teacher, it's not that they're not saying great things about you but it's not quite aligned with what you're planning to study at Bucknell.

  And what I always say to students is, “You should think about trying to align your application.” If you're thinking about pursuing engineering or another STEM field, it's I think a good idea to try to have one recommendation from that area. I think it's up absolutely appropriate, if you have a strong recommender from a different area, to have them as a secondary. But I do think that the mistake sometimes students make is they're so focused on finding their best advocates that they don't always align their best advocates with what they're looking to pursue.

  And then that leads me to another piece of advice, which is if you're saying to yourself, "My best advocates and my favorite teachers aren't in the thing I'm applying to," then maybe you need to rethink what you're applying to.

  [00:14:46] BT: What I'm hearing, Kevin, it sounds like the recommenders is definitely not an afterthought. It's something that you should put intentionality into, finding someone who can speak to the things that your application is speaking to — that you as a student yourself are writing down.

  [00:14:59] KM: I agree. And I think, Brooke, that leads to another potential error that students make, which is not giving their recommenders enough time. You have to remember that you're one of many. There are only so many teachers in your school, and you need to make sure that you're cognizant of the fact that they might be writing 10 letters of recommendation, or 15, not just yours. Asking them a week before the deadline can put a lot of extra burden on them. Being proactive, making sure that you're on the radar early enough, is really important.

  [00:15:29] BT: Speaking of advocates in students' lives and throughout the college admissions process, parents are also a huge part of this — from weighing in during the search process to visiting schools alongside their student. We've chatted about the role of parents in previous episodes, most recently in our conversation with two members of Bucknell's Parents Board in episode 45. We've got some good guidance from their perspective. But what about things students should avoid when navigating this entire process with their parents?

  [00:15:59] BHA: Brooke, you're absolutely right. The role of the parents is particularly important throughout the search process, and the types of support they can provide, and when they can provide those types of supports.

  And so a couple of things that we tend to see that maybe students might want to avoid, to Kevin's point about finding alignment in your application, is sometimes parents can have a lot of influence about what major a student lists on their application. And sometimes that major that a parent might be heavily promoting or suggesting may or may not be in alignment with the student's true passions or necessarily their academic strengths. And so, while a parent can absolutely provide guidance, do their own research and help support the student in that way, giving the student some freedom to really choose what they want to do and ultimately pursue might allow the student to take more of a driver's seat in the application process.

  Parents also can help proofread and review essays if that's something that they want to do. And to Kevin's point, proofreading is really important. But we also don't want the student to lose their voice in the application either. And so you might want to caution your parents from over-editing your essay, even though many parents might have only the best interests in mind in offering that type of support and guidance.

  And so, all in all, the relationship between the student and the parent throughout the process can be a tricky one to navigate. But hopefully, students and parents are able to strike a balance where the student can remain in the driver's seat of the process, given it is their college search process, and the parent can remain in a support role.

  And Brooke, like you mentioned, that was such a great episode and such a fun one to do with members of Bucknell's Parents Board. I would definitely encourage people to go back and give that one a listen.

  [00:17:38] BT: Yeah, it was a really great conversation with parents who've been through the process about how they were able to empower their students to really take control of this experience. Because after all, the student is the one who will be going through this college journey after the application is submitted, after they've accepted their offer and after their parents have dropped them off or what is, hopefully, a really fantastic four years.

  [00:18:00] KM: I'll also just add to Becca's point that, I think, to your question, Brooke, about what should students avoid. They should avoid being quiet or secretive about the process with their family, right? Because they think that the hallmark of a good process is good communication. And I think that, on the one hand, parents, and guardians, and family members sometimes don't understand how much a student is thinking about the college search process and worry that the student is not as engaged as they should be. But part of it is that the student needs to let them know that they are thinking about it, they are working on things and they're working together. I think having that open communication is really important to work through this process together.

  And also setting some expectations and boundaries for a student. How do you want your parent, guardian, or family member to help you? Do you want them to be more involved? To Becca's point, they can be a great proof reader. Do you want them in that capacity? I think this is a moment for students to think about not avoiding ownership of this process and actually, to Becca's point, being in that driver's seat and saying, "Here's how we can work together and what I'm seeking for you in terms of support." Rather than, like I said, being quiet and then letting your family try to assume, and guess, and read your mind. And I don't think that's what anybody really wants.

  [00:19:16] BT: I think now is a great time to fast forward a little bit to the point where the application has been submitted. And we're crossing our fingers that there is an acceptance letter on the way. What should a student not forget about during this waiting period, and even after once they've been accepted?

  [00:19:33] KM: They should not forget to keep checking their email. One of the big, I think, discrepancies right now between admission offices and high school students is that we still use a lot of email while students are on different communication channels. I think we as colleges are catching up to that. But I think this is a great educational moment for students to understand that when you get into the college search process, and then even into your careers later, email becomes a really important thing. My first piece of advice is do not forget to check your email.

  Because we continue to communicate with you even after you've submitted your application. We let you know how you're going to be able to get your decisions. We typically communicate opportunities, so there might be scholarship opportunities that are available after you apply. And what we don't want to happen at the end of the process is for students to say, "I didn't know that these things were available." And it turns out we've been telling you about them for months, but you just didn't actually engage with the communication that we were sending out.

  At this stage of the process, I actually really recommend creating a new email account just for the application process because you've likely been signing up to get information from lots of schools. We know that you're going to start to make your list smaller and smaller as you go through the process. But you will continue to receive emails from all the places that you might have been talking to. And I think what can be really helpful is, before you submit applications, create a new email account. Decide if it's just yours as the student or if you're going to allow your family to be able to log into it as well. And then that way you have one spot to go to the places that you've actually applied to that you want to be hearing from so that you can navigate through those communications and understand, "Hey, I've applied to Bucknell. They're telling me about this opportunity."

  And to your point, Brooke, about post-decision, if you're an accepted student, there's a lot of invitations that come after you're accepted for programming, ways to connect with current students and faculty. And again, I think having a more centralized place where it's a much smaller group of schools you're navigating, and it's the ones you really want to hear from, is a great way to not forget to do that and then make sure you're getting really good information.

  [00:21:37] BHA: Kevin, I love the idea of a different email account. And what I've been telling students a lot lately is that the “Unsubscribe” button is your friend. If there's a school that you've determined you won't be applying to, you're no longer interested in, go ahead and scroll down and hit that “Unsubscribe” button to clean up your inbox a little bit.

  [00:22:02] BT: So don't be like me and have that red bubble of like several hundred emails of junk that I just haven't read. Got it.

  In this episode, we've compiled a pretty robust list of mistakes not to make in the college admissions process. But as we round things out, if you're going to leave our listeners with a tip for one thing to do, what is that?

  [00:22:27] BHA: My recommendation would be to just be yourself throughout the entire application process. That goes for when you walk onto our campus and engage with our team, when you're here visiting and when you put together your application. We can't wait to read about and hear from the truest and most authentic version of you — not necessarily the self that you think we want to meet. And so bring your full self to your campus visit and to your application too.

  [00:22:53] KM: I will add on to what Becca was just saying because I think reflection is really important. Reflect on who you are. What are the things that make you, and how do you communicate that to an admissions office? And I think that is what helps you lead to what Becca was saying about being your authentic self in the application.

  My second one is a little more practical. I am a big fan of Excel, and my best piece of advice for a student and their family is to think about actually creating an Excel chart or, if you like Google, doing Google Sheets, and keeping track of the institutions you're applying to, the different deadlines, the requirements. You actually have it in one spot how you're going to actually navigate this application process. And then, as we've talked about throughout this episode, what are the things that you might need to do along the way for each school differently? And you can keep track of that there as well.

  [00:23:41] BT: You can never be too organized or too authentic. Well, thanks again to Kevin and our co-host, Becca, for sharing their insight.

  [00:23:48] KM: Thanks so much for having me, both of you. I love doing the podcast, and I'm glad I got to do this one with you.

  [00:23:54] BHA: It was fun to see the other side of things. Thanks, Brooke.

  [00:23:57] BT: We also want to thank everyone out there for listening. If you're a fan of the podcast, please take a moment to rate, subscribe and share this episode with the students in your life.

  [00:24:07] BHA: We'll be back with another new episode in a few weeks. In the meantime, send your questions, comments and episode ideas to podcast@bucknell.edu. We read every note you send.

  [00:24:18] BT: And finally, you're invited to follow Bucknell on your favorite social media apps. Just look for @bucknellu on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter YouTube and TikTok. You can also follow our student run Instagram account, which is @iamraybucknell.

  [00:24:31] BHA: Until next time, keep reaching for your dreams and your dream school.

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