Episode 57: Why Go to College?

Episode 57

• Episode 57 Transcript

  [INTRODUCTION]

  [0:00:07] BT: Our world today is bursting with endless choices and possibilities. We like to believe that with a combination of drive, talent and optimism, there's so much that a person can do with their life.

  [0:00:20] BHA: In a world where you might do virtually anything, why go to college? My name is Becca Haupt Aldredge. On this episode of College Admissions Insider, we're spending some time considering that essential question. After all, determining why you might want to go to college is the first step in any student's college admissions journey.

  [0:00:37] BT: I'm Brooke Thames, also from Bucknell. In our conversation, we'll chat about why a student might consider pursuing education post-high school, how college experiences aid personal growth, the lifelong influence of a college education and more.

  [0:00:51] BHA: Here to lend his wisdom on the topic is Joe Tranquillo, the associate provost for transformative teaching & learning at Bucknell. Joe has prior experience as a faculty member in Bucknell’s College of Engineering. Now as associate provost, he works to shape and enhance the academic and living-learning experiences of students on campus.

  [INTERVIEW]

  [0:01:11] BHA: Joe, thanks for being here.

  [0:01:12] JT: Well, thank you so much. This is a real treat.

  [0:01:15] BT: BHA: Before we get into the meat of this episode, I wonder if you can tell us a little bit more about your role as an associate provost.

  [0:01:21] JT: Yeah, sure. My broad area is the teaching and learning experiences that we have here. That includes both the academic and non-academic experiences in and out of the classroom. There's a sort of oversight component of it, which is our residential colleges, the first-year experience, advising, first-generation programming, our Teaching & Learning Center, our Writing Center, the Pathways Program — which is our e-portfolio program — and our Office of Global & Off-Campus Education, and they oversee all of our study abroad. But there's also a sort of leadership component of the job as well. That's really, in a nutshell, to remind everybody on campus why we're all here, and that's for our students. It's also to let everyone know that this is not just the job of professors and those in student life — it's everyone on campus. That includes finance, and housing, and facilities, dining, and athletics and lots of folks that really what we're here to do is to support the growth and development of all of our students.

  [0:02:20] BT: As we dive into discussing all the ways that a college education is valuable. I'm curious to hear about what your own college experience was like. Where did you attend?

  [0:02:28] JT: I think I need to backup first. I followed an interesting path. I thought that I was going to go to music school. I actually got in and was thinking about that as a path. Decided not to do that, and instead went to Trinity College in Hartford, Conn. Started out thinking I was going to be a philosophy major and, somehow, found my way into math and physics, and eventually ended up graduating as an engineer.

  Great things that happened in college. I met my future wife, some absolutely amazing friends. Joined an acapella group, which is something I never expected to do. Had my first trip out of the country. That was to Amsterdam, which was a lot of fun. I did that to go present research that I had been doing with a professor for a couple of summers. And got hooked on modern dance, which was completely unexpected, and it's something that I still continue to do today. Hopefully, I can continue doing that. Because of those research experiences, I ended up going to grad school for biomedical engineering. And after getting my PhD and doing a postdoc, I chose to come to Bucknell to help start our biomedical engineering program.

  I could go into all sorts of different pieces of college and things that I learned, but I'll just give one example. That is that I fell in love with cultural anthropology. That was because of a course that I took with a professor that just totally lit me up, and I ended up taking three more courses in it. It was fun at the time, but now, over two decades later, I think I've made the realization that those are the courses that I probably use every day in my current position, more so than the engineering courses that I took. So college was a wonderfully transformative experience for me. I grew in many ways that I never ever, ever would have expected.

  [0:04:15] BHA: Yeah. I think that touches on tons of things we'll get into here shortly about college being this really transformative period in a student's life. I love that personal journey, Joe, of music to engineering to dance. But starting at the beginning of a student's college journey, there are tons of considerations, of course. Hence, why we produce this podcast. But that first primary question that students face is whether or not they should even attend college. So, let's start by tackling that. Why continue your education after high school?

  [0:04:45] JT: Oh, sure. Well, I think that there's one really simple reason, and then I'll go into some others. That is that it’s an investment in yourself. I think that, first and foremost, that's important. Even if you don't go to college, that idea of continually investing in yourself is really important for long-term success, and thriving, and flourishing throughout life. Choosing to go to college, I wouldn't say it's the beginning of that, but it's you taking some ownership over an investment in yourself. There's lots of options. It's not just the type of places that I'm at now. This can be community colleges, or trade schools, or online degrees and there's many others.

  Honestly, the reason to go to some sort of post-secondary school has been studied to death by foundations and government organizations because they really want to know what societal function is being played by higher education. They're thinking about it from where should they invest their money, but the results have been really striking, and they're pretty consistent across a lot of different takes on this. What I can do is just go through a summary, and there's certainly more of these, but this is just a big high-level view.

  A growing number of jobs that are out there are requiring some kind of post-high school education. Being a graduate, having that credential, can open doors that aren't open otherwise. There are certainly some financial advantages. Graduates are more on average, they have a decreased chance of unemployment, they also have a lower chance of carrying certain types of non-loan debt. They almost always report greater satisfaction in their job, and that's because, usually, the jobs that they have have more challenge, they have more opportunities to keep learning, they set you up to be able to advance and continue on to other jobs. It's not just setting you up for a job, it's really setting you up for a career and a career path.

  Graduates also have an increased chance of owning their own home and report general life happiness. That includes, believe it or not, higher marriage rates and lower divorce rates, greater physical and mental health — often because there's quality health care that is part of the job. There's more awareness of being proactive, about both mental health and physical health and safety. There's even data out there that graduates are more likely to wear a seatbelt. Again, these are all statistics that have been collected.

  In terms of what graduates do, most of them give back to their community at higher rates. That's not just with their money, but also with their talent and with the time that they're willing to put in.

  The bottom line is that, really, any institution of post-secondary education is going to set you up for a really bright future.

  [0:07:32] BT: So you touched on different types of institutions, two-year schools, trade schools, four-year institutions like Bucknell. We know that there's a different fit and a different match for every student. But given your work here at Bucknell, a four-year liberal arts residential institution, I wonder if you can talk a little bit more about what sets apart that type of experience for a student while they're here. You mentioned lots of postgraduate outcomes, but in those four years, what opportunities does that offer a student while on campus?

  [0:08:03] JT: Everything I said above but amplified. I think that many of those things get amplified when you are in a four-year degree program. What that allows is for you to have a certain degree of broadness to the curriculum. It's a long-term investment. It's those courses like the anthropology course that I was able to take that maybe you didn't even realize was important at the time, but it became more important over time.

  The other thing it does is to give you some ability to gain some very specialized knowledge and skills. This is often things that faculty have as a special area of focus and that sets you up for really unique job opportunities that may actually be emerging. Many of the jobs that we realize students are going into are things that didn't even exist when they first entered school. These four-year goals often set you up for those types of jobs. The ones that are emerging, the ones that may not even exist yet, but will in five, 10, maybe 15 years.

  The other thing it does is, often, four-year schools have a tight knit alumni group that they can open doors for you as well. Oftentimes, alumni will serve as mentors or be connections to help you while you're in school, helping you get internships, but also to open up doors and let you know about jobs. There's a statistic out there that something like 70% of jobs are actually not even posted. They're not out there. Probably they're just…you learn about them through word of mouth through your connections.

  But I want to go back to sort of a combination of these things, and that is the four years that you spend. It allows you to go deep into an area but also to explore. There are some, including me, who have written on this topic in what's called “T-shaped people.” This is the letter T, where the stem of the T is the depth, and the top of the T is the breadth. The depth is often what's going to allow you to create value right away, and that's the thing that is in job descriptions and things like that. But it's the top of that T, that breadth, that's going to allow you to relate to folks who are not in your field, to speak a little bit of their language, to know a little bit about how they work.

  What that means is that a T-shaped person is someone who can be the glue between different groups. When you're out working in a company, you can relate to and talk to people in different departments in different divisions. It's those T-shaped people that get recognized very quickly and often advance in their career. I think the four years that you spent in college are four years that you could spend both getting the depth of the T but also that breadth of the T.

  [0:10:46] BHA: It really reminds me of a conversation we were having in a recent episode about minors and the value of becoming a well-rounded individual by going through a process of discovery, which sounds like it's also a big benefit of attending a four-year institution. I mean, there of course can be a certain amount of pressure on high schoolers to know what they want to do in the adulthood. But that's a big ask of someone who's 17 or 18-years-old, especially, Joe, as you mentioned, they might be studying for careers that don't even exist.

  [0:11:12] JT: I agree, it is a huge ask to ask someone who's 17, or 18, or even 22, or 30, do you have it figured out? I absolutely get that. I have a daughter who's almost 17 and she's looking at colleges right now. I'm living this as a parent. I think I've personally experienced it, and I’ll about that later of changing my mind several times. As a 17-year-old, thinking I might be a musician. As an 18-year-old, thinking I might go into philosophy and really having no idea where that would go. If someone ever mentioned the idea that I was going to be a professor, that would have just been…there's no way. That's never going to happen.

  But to me, part of the point was being open to the idea that there's going to be a unique pathway that you're going to follow. If you just continue to think about what's going to unlock some potential, what are some ways that I can explore, that's going to help. There are three guiding questions that I think can really help — to help navigating in this sort of journey, and then all these twists and turns.

  The first one is, what do you really love to do? What lights you up? What gets you up in the morning? What are you passionate about? What are you finding yourself smiling, and laughing, and thoroughly enjoying? There's a famous term called “flow,” that's when you get lost in the moment, you kind of lose track of where you are and the amount of time that you're in. That's what I mean, that kind of love. You can have those moments, and it's not all the time. It's something that you really truly love.

  Then the second one is, what are you good at? There's lots of things that you may love or enjoy. I love trail running. I'm pretty good at it, but I'm never going to be a professional trail runner. I mean, there's just no way. I'm not good enough at it to be a professional trail runner.

  The last one is, what does the world need? What is it that's missing in the world that you think you can do, and you can supply, and you can contribute to?

  So intersection of those three things. What do you love? What are you good at? What does the world need? That's really at the intersection of those a way of thinking about how you can have a fulfilling life throughout your entire life.

  Now, college is a time and a place when you can explore those three questions, right? What is it that I love? And maybe some of the things that were in high school you hadn't found out yet. I discovered dance later in life. I had no idea I was going to like that. Again, am I good at it? Well, I'm okay at it. But again, I'm not going to be a professional dancer. But what is the world need? Well, it was through dance that I started teaching. It wasn't through engineering. It wasn't through music. It was actually through dance that I started to teach, and I learned, “Wow, the world really needs good teachers.” Each of those sorts of pieces and journeys, I learned something new about myself. That's what led me to the position that I'm in now. Again, it was a twisty, turny kind of strange pathway. But one I can honestly say has been really, really fulfilling.

  [0:14:10] BHA: I love those three questions as a guiding framework. As somebody who likes to write in journal, I hope that listeners might be grabbing a pen and paper right now and starting to explore some of those questions in whatever medium makes sense for them.

  We talked about majors, and minors, and research, and exploring both depth and breadth in those four years. We talked about curiosity, and exploration, and even things like study abroad and experiential learning. But can we dive into the residential component? How does that add another layer of value to that four-year college experience?

  [0:14:44] JT: Oh, sure, absolutely. I think, obviously, not every college has a residential component. But for those who do, there's some even added benefits to that. Really, it comes down to having a more holistic set of skills, and knowledge, and attitudes, and behaviors that you have a chance to practice that are going to help you be successful out in the world that go beyond just the academic or career components of growth. You're going to encounter new people, and new ideas, and different traditions, and cultures, and you're going to live with them. That's very different than reading about it in a textbook or having an offhand one-hour conversation with someone. When you're living with different people, and hearing new ideas, and needing to wrestle with them at two, three in the morning. That's very, very, very different.

  You're also going to get to spend quality time with people, and that's what leads to these enduring lifelong friendships, having peers who are out there in the world. I have friends I've continued to stay in touch with, and they've been wonderful support in many, many, many ways. That happens because of that close, tight-knit thing.

  Now, the difficulty is when you live with people on a campus, you need to learn a whole new set of skills like negotiation, and compromise, and teamwork, and how to communicate — not just in sort of those formal academic classroom sorts of ways but in an informal setting too. That's something that's going to help not just in the professional world. Think about your family life, and your friends, and things beyond just what your career might be.

  There are also adults on campus. These are coaches, and academic assistants, and student life professionals and professors like me who can become trusted mentors and advisors. There's a ton of data out there to support that a long-term measure of success is, “Have you found a few close non-family members who've taken a special interest in you?” I know for sure that I had my own. I mentioned doing research with a professor. He wasn't the only one. But he certainly was someone who took a special interest in me — not as a parent, or an uncle, or a grandparent but just as another human being to say, “Hey, I'm an adult. I see something interesting in you.” That makes a huge difference. That's something that happens on residential campuses.

  There are also ways to get involved, and you mentioned a number of them. High-impact practices, these are things like studying abroad, doing that research with a professor, getting involved in civic engagement out in the community. These are all ways that you can get involved, and you'll learn a lot about yourself.

  A residential community is in some ways, and our president says this often, kind of like a small city. There are community events, there are sporting events, there are speakers, there are performances. A lot of times, colleges are regional hubs for local culture and community engagement as well. There's, a lot of times, hundreds of clubs that are happening in intramural sports. Those are all opportunities on a residential campus to go deeper into who you are, what lights you up, get thinking about those three questions. It allows you to explore.

  I tried out ultimate frisbee for the first time in college. I was like, “Eh.” It didn't light me up. It wasn't my thing. But I'm really thankful that I got to try it. It goes back to that T shape. I know a little bit about ultimate frisbee now, and there have been multiple times in my life when ultimate frisbee has come up. Am I an expert? No, but I can have a little bit of a conversation with someone.

  Other things in terms of residential campuses, getting a job on campus. For a lot of students, it's their first real job that they have on campus. They may be working in a box office or working in as a student caller. It's an opportunity to learn to work, to have a boss. Maybe if you advance in that job, to oversee some other students who are under you — so of getting that experience of what it's like to be a little bit of a manager. It can help you show what it means to have a job that has some meaning and some purpose that's giving back, that gets it that third component that we talked about. What does the world need? Having a job on campus can help you with that.

  Residential campuses often have special support systems on campus. These can be career centers, where there's dedicated staff who can help you think about your career. Mental and physical health support staff as well as advising and tutoring might be available.

  The last thing that I'll say is that, almost every residential campus has certain traditions, and cultures, and events that are fun and endearing that help link you to the place. Here at Bucknell, we have a tradition that when students enter, they go through the Christi Mathewson Gates, our football stadium on campus, the day that they arrive on campus. Now, when they do that the first day, it's sort of like, “Okay, they're marching us all through these gates.” Then they go to a Candlelighting Ceremony, where we get to spread a single lit candle throughout the entire incoming class. Again, when it happens when you're first year, not a big deal. But that process is repeated again as seniors. There's often not a dry eye there because they remember back to who they were when they came in and how different they actually are now. That tradition is something that is unique to our campus, and almost every campus has traditions like that, that help tie you to the place. That's a special component of a residential campus.

  [0:20:12] BT: Everything you said there was really rich and full of insights. I'd love to dig a little bit deeper into a theme that I feel is emerging, which is the development of life skills. And college is a time to develop those, whether that is trying out something new and learning that you didn't like it, or learning how to negotiate with people that you know or living with, or having an on-campus job. Earlier, you touched on the fact that college provides value for a lifetime. I've heard you use the word “flourish” before to describe that. Can you tell a little bit more about what that means and why that's important?

  [0:20:45] JT: Yeah, sure. I think this is a little bit about definition of terms. I'm a professor, right? We always define terms before we use them. I view this as a little bit building up to flourishing. A way to think about that is there is success, and success is usually having a goal, working towards it, hopefully, eventually being able to reach the goal or not — and you sort of know that you've reached the goal. It's often contained within some particular domain. In the academic realm, this may be, “I want to get a B plus or better, or an A minus or better.” Then eventually, you work hard, and you find out eventually whether you achieve that or not. It's success within that realm.

  I think that there's a next level beyond that, which is this holistic piece, this well-rounded piece that we've been talking about. The word I use for that is “thriving.” It's the sense that you're growing and developing in lots and lots of different ways, not just one. But also, that you're a player in that. You have control over that growth, you have agency, there's stuff that you can do about that. And by practicing holistic practicing in lots of different ways, you are thriving.

  Now, what that means, and I want to nuance this a little bit with success, is you actually might not be successful in every one of your goals. But you are making progress towards many different goals, and that's the measure of thriving. It's kind of a state that you're in, and it's a little bit longer term. Like on the order of maybe weeks, and months, or maybe even years.

  Now, the term you asked about was “flourishing.” To me, that's an even longer-term goal. Can you actually find fulfillment and purpose throughout all the peaks and valleys through your life? We all have moments in our lives when we say, “I don't feel like I'm thriving right now.” Or maybe later on, a week or two later, “Yeah, I do feel like I'm thriving.” Flourishing is sort of the much longer-term arc over the course of your life. Do you feel like you're leading a fulfilling life that you have some agency over that you see what your purpose is? You're answering those three questions. What am I good at? What do I love? What does the world need?

  The real goal, I think of many colleges is to help you flourish throughout your life, but we're not there with you throughout your whole life exactly. What we can focus on instead, is how can we help you learn what it is to thrive, so this is this holistic state. Yes, be successful in your individual pursuits. But we really are hoping that you'll thrive in college, which will set you up to flourish long-term.

  [0:23:38] BHA: As I was thinking about the definitions of “thrive” and “flourish” there, I think the key about them being long-term and longitudinal is so poignant and so maybe counterintuitive to what our society calls for every day. What thriving and flourishing might ask us to do is actually slow down a little bit, and kind of take that macro view, and not have the same instant gratification, or validation, or whatever it is that we might be seeking. I love that. I love that you pointed that out. I think that aligns really well with the choice to attend a four-year institution, which is a little bit more of an investment and a longer-term investment — a lifelong one, really.

  [0:24:19] JT: Yeah. I wanted to reinforce that. I think learning is not a straight line. You'll probably hear me say this later on as well. It's not a straight line. It's not something that happens all at once. There are stops and starts, and fits and starts, and sometimes even what feels like sliding backwards. That all takes time. I think if all you're looking to do is see this as a, “Am I making progress today?” You may miss the fact that over the course of a month, or a year, you are making progress.

  I mentioned I'm a trail runner. I see this in running all the time. I mean, you don't hit your splits every single day. But over the long-term, you do make progress. I think that that's what we're talking about here is that long view of, “Are you continuing to move forward?” The most important part of that is, do you feel that you have some agency over that? You have some control over the fact that you're continuing to grow.

  [0:25:10] BHA: How can we make that real for a student? How can a student measure that in their day-to-day, or see that in their daily experience? Or what might that feel like for a student to know when they are thriving or to know and feel when they are maybe not thriving so much?

  [0:25:27] JT: You've probably already learned, for those of you listening, that I'm a framework person. I love frameworks. They help kind of clarify and help set some common ideas and goals. There is a framework that is thriving. So thinking about what it means to thrive, and not just saying that word but actually diving into what it means. It's four questions that any student can ask of themselves.

  “Are my basic needs being met?” That includes feeling safe, mental and physical health, food, clothing, housing, getting enough sleep. There's a lot in that, but it is, “Are my basic needs being met?” That’s the first question.

  The second one is, “Do I feel a sense of belonging?” That has two components to it. The first is the connection to the institution, to the traditions, to the culture, to the events. Just, when you're walking around campus, when you're attending things, do you feel like this is your place? Do you feel like you're there? The second part of belonging is, have you found your people? This is only going to be a couple of people. I's not everyone, it's going to be maybe two, three, four that you can be truly authentic with. What I mean by that is, this is not a transaction. You're not hanging out with them because you want something for them, or they want something from you. It's a true relationship that you truly, deeply care about one another. My favorite version of this is, these are the people that you can be in that raw state of becoming with. I mentioned a number of times that learning is hard, it's tricky, it's messy, you have setbacks. Can you actually be that raw with this small group of people? That was question two.

  The third one is, “Am I aware of and using the resources that are around me?” Everybody encounters challenges, everyone needs help from the resources that are with them. Those who can leverage the resources that are around them are well set up to thrive.

  The fourth one is, “Do I see signs that I'm growing in lots of different ways?” I want to unpack that a little bit. We've already talked a little bit about the multiple different ways that you could be growing. But I want to talk about the, “Are you aware?” It goes back to who is that deciding whether you're growing or not. It's often really easy to get into, “Well, I got a good grade,” or “I got a compliment,” or “I got written feedback from someone.” That's fine. Those are external, tangible measures of growth. But I think the more important ones are, do you actually see that you're growing? Do you see that you're getting better at the things that you really want to get better at? That's, again, a much more internal thing. You can have milestones and write things that are external, but do you really see it?

  Now, as a student, if you can say yes to those four questions, your chances of thriving in college are probably pretty high. If you start to say no repeatedly to one or more of those questions, your chances of thriving go down. I think this is a way of students checking in with themselves, right? “Are my basic needs being met? Do I feel like I belong here? Am I using the resources available? Do I feel a sense that I'm growing in multiple ways?”

  I want to actually go beyond that, because you may or may not say yes or no to those questions, but I've talked a lot about agency and what you can do about it. I think that that's the next key piece. So I want to actually make a slight change to those questions, to turn them into learning goals. Take the first one: Are your basic needs being met? We can turn that into, “My goal is, by the time I graduate, I'll be able to say, ‘I can meet my basic needs.’ ” You may not be able to say that right now. There may be some basic needs that you think, “Well, I'm not sure I actually can quite meet that one.” But a goal in the time that you're in college is you can learn how to do that. So that by the time you graduate, you can say, “I contend to my basic needs. I don't need my parents anymore, I don't need the universities to do it for me, I know how to do that.’

  The same can go for the other parts of the framework, too. Belonging…“Do I feel a sense of belonging would become, by the time that I graduate, I can go into a new place and actively seek out the places, and the events, and the neighborhoods where I feel like I belong? And I can know what it feels like to meet those people who I can be authentic with?” Again, this is a skill because many of us move from one location to another multiple times. Do you actually have the ability to do that?

  Now, there's a next step even deeper beyond this. I mentioned that safety was a basic need. We can ask a question, “Do I feel safe on campus?” Now, whether you're student and you do or you don't, we can turn that into a learning goal. It would look something like, “I can assess the risks to me in an environment or situation, and I can take an appropriate action.” I don't care if that is going to a party, or studying abroad in another country, or walking through a particular neighborhood, or maybe meeting a significant other’s parents for the first time. Those are all situations that present certain types of risks and certain types of safety issues. The hope would be that throughout four years of college, you're practicing, you're getting better at becoming situationally aware of the risks that are around you that are presented to you, and then being proactive. Not waiting for something bad to happen, but thinking ahead, and being aware of what you can do, and what you have control of to keep yourself safe. Again, that's just one example. There's obviously lots and lots more to this.

  But it comes back to growth. Are you growing into the ways where you have control over your own thriving.

  [0:31:13] BT: That's such a valuable framework and set of questions and methods for setting goals that I think students who are transitioning from high school to college will really benefit from.

  We're coming up on the end of our time here. But before we close this wonderful conversation, I actually want to go back to what we touched on at the beginning of this conversation — this broad topic that we're talking about: why go to college at all? As someone who's dedicated to helping students get the most out of the college experience through all of the different considerations, and questions, and frameworks that you've helped us build here on this episode, how would you recommend our listeners think about what they want or need from their education after high school?

  [0:31:57] JT: Great question, and a tricky one. I think that each individual listing is going to have to probably answer that question for themselves to some degree. But I'll add, reflect on where you are right now, but think back to who you were four years ago. You were probably really different, and you're almost certainly going to see that there have been changes that have happened, and it was this twisty, turny thing. And so I think it's the challenge to say, “You can do it. You can do that again.”

  College can be a time when you will learn so much more about yourself, about the world, about others around you, who are going to challenge you in ways that you probably can't even imagine. Measuring your learning relative to yourself — and that's what I'm talking about — not relative to others, but relative to who you were, and who you want to become.

  I think the key to having a great college experience, it's going to be a bit of a roller coaster, there's going to be ups and downs. No one saying that it's going to be easy and, at times, it will be frustrating. But it's through that frustration that we often learn the most about those three questions we talked about. What are you good at, what do you love, and what does the world need? When you go to college, consider yourself stretchable, and that's a good thing. Even when it's uncomfortable, it's okay. Recognizing that some areas are going to progress faster than others, and that's perfectly fine. You can be open to that.

  Lastly, a great post-secondary education is not going to force you to do any of this. They're going to help you to navigate it in the ways that you want to navigate it. When you're going and looking at places, and sort of scoping them out, and seeing where would be the right place for you, look at the website, go on the tours, ask questions. But you know what support you need to grow and develop, so ask those questions. You can use some of the frameworks that we talked about as a little bit of a guide.

  College is a time for you to grow and develop, and I would encourage any of those who are listening to use it as a wonderful time in your life — circling back to what we started with, to truly invest in yourself. College is a time to begin establishing good habits for a whole lifetime, and probably the best habit that you can develop is continually investing in yourself.

  [0:34:16] BHA: Wow! Thanks, Joe so much. I hope that our listeners are feeling inspired to use that agency that you described, and to ask those tough questions, to seek what they need to be able to thrive, and flourish, and find the experiences, and tools that they're looking for in a four-year institution that's ultimately the right fit for them. Thanks again for being here and for taking the time.

  [0:34:37] JT: Great. Thank you so much Becca and Brooke. This has been a lot of fun.

  [0:34:40] BT: Thanks to everyone out there listening. If you're a fan of the podcast, please take a moment to rate, subscribe and share this episode with the students in your life.

  [0:34:48] BHA: We’ll be back with another episode in a few weeks. In the meantime, send your questions, comments, and episode ideas to podcast@bucknell.edu. We read every single note that you send.

  [0:34:59] BT: We also invite you to follow Bucknell on your favorite social media apps. Just look for @BucknellU on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube and TikTok. You can also follow our student-run Instagram account, which is @iamraybucknell.

  [0:35:12] BHA: Until next time, keep reaching for your dreams and your dream school.

  [END]