Episode 16: My Application Story

Episode 16 Transcript

• Episode 16 Transcript

  [00:00:07] BW: Hello, and welcome to College Admissions Insider, the podcast where we help students find, apply to and, we hope, get into their dream school. I'm Bryan Wendell from Bucknell University.

  [00:00:17] BT: And I'm Brooke Thames, also from Bucknell University. In this show, we bring in experts about college admissions to help you dissect important steps in the college admissions process.

  [00:00:26] BW: That's right. And for this episode, those experts are closer to the college search process than any guests we've had so far. We've invited three current Bucknell students — Emily Brandes ’21, Gabe Gross ’23 and Ryan Iwata ’22 — to share their application story.

  [00:00:41] BT: So when did they start building a list of colleges to consider? How did they narrow that list down? What do they wish they had done differently when applying? We are going to ask them all about this and more in our first ever college admissions roundtable.

  [00:00:54] BW: So without any more delay, let's bring in Emily, Gabe and Ryan. Hey, guys, welcome to the podcast.

  [00:00:59] EM: Thank you for having us.

  [00:01:01] GG: Glad to be here.

  [00:01:02] RI: Glad to be here as well.

  [00:01:03] BT: So yeah, let's start by introducing yourselves even more to our listeners. Tell us your name, your class year and your major at Bucknell.

  [00:01:10] EB: I'm Emily. I'm a senior, and I'm a double major in economics and political science.

  [00:01:16] GG: My name is Gabe Gross. I'm a current sophomore here at Bucknell. I'm MIDE major, which stands for markets, innovation & design in our Freeman College of Management. And I'm a theatre design & tech minor in arts and sciences.

  [00:01:28] RI: And then my name is Ryan, and I'm a junior studying environmental engineering here at Bucknell.

  [00:01:33] BW: And so we've got three guests, and they all happen to represent the three colleges we have here at Bucknell. So we've kind of got all those three boxes checked. I also think it would be helpful to hear a little bit about your high school experience. So if you could tell us what part of the country you went to high school, maybe some of the extracurriculars you did, anything else in your time in high school that might help our listeners get to know you a little bit better.

  [00:01:55] EB: I went to Lexington High School, so right outside of Boston. And I would say most of my time there was spent in sports. I did three seasons of sports, so after school was pretty busy. But I definitely learned to find a good balance between school life and extracurriculars while I was there, because there was a lot going on.

  [00:02:16] GG: I went to Avon Old Farms. It was an all-boys boarding school in Avon, Conn. Like Emily, I was also a three-sport athlete. I played baseball, basketball and soccer. But I also balanced that a lot with working within my school community, and I worked in admissions office there. I was the president of our outreach club, the community service club on campus, as well as being a Big Brother and a peer tutor for some of the other boys.

  [00:02:38] RI: And then I went to North Hollywood High School Zoo Magnet Program in Los Angeles, Calif., which is where I'm from. And so when I was there, I was part of student government on my campus, but I was also a part of three sports — cross country, track and soccer. And then I also just volunteered at the zoo and did a lot of animal husbandry work while I was there.

  [00:02:56] BT: Awesome, lots of diverse and interesting high school experiences there. And so when you got to those first stages of your college search process, how old were you when you started creating the list of schools that you might apply to? And what were some of the things that prompted you to add a college to your list?

  [00:03:13] EB: Yeah, I think I really started the spring of my junior year. And at first, it was really just schools that I'd heard of. I just looked at my preliminary lists that I had made during my junior year and very different from the schools I ended up just looking at. But a lot of that was just what I thought I maybe wanted from a college experience, whether that was from movies, or what I'd heard. And then from there, I started to get serious.

  [00:03:44] GG: I also started in my junior spring. It was actually the first week we were back to class in January [that] I met with my college counselor. I was completely lost. Every question he asked, I didn't know the answer to. Wen he asked big or small school, liberal arts or business, my answer was yes to everything. So I really struggled with how to narrow that list down and how to figure out what I wanted. I knew I wanted school that had a great academic reputation that would be able to challenge me in the classroom. But outside of that, I really had no idea what else to look for until I really started to dive more into that process.

  [00:04:14] RI: I also started in my spring of junior year as well, and I was mainly looking at schools that specifically offered the major I was looking at. And if they just had a cool unique factor — like something that stood out to me when I was first looking at them, or if it was just really cool in general.

  [00:04:31] BW: Interesting. So you all started around the same time and had different levels of knowing exactly what you wanted at first. When you started organizing the the actual list, can you tell us what that looked like? Was it a Google Spreadsheet? Was it something written down? How did you keep it all organized? And also, I'd be interested, if you remember, how many schools were actually on that list of semi-finalists, we could call them.

  [00:04:56] EB: Yeah, I had about 11 schools that I was pretty serious about looking for. When that started, we were very old fashioned pen and paper, just keeping the list.

  I know the first couple of schools we went to, I went everywhere with my mom. And we tried to like print out these worksheets that had like, “What do you like? What don't you like?” But that wasn't really for me. So I know a lot of it was just right after the tour in the car, writing down everything that I felt. What my gut feeling was. What I liked, what I didn't like. And I think after those first couple tours, it made it a lot easier to pick out those qualities at other schools and find what I was looking for.

  [00:05:37] GG: My list was probably about 30 schools, I have to say, and it was a range of every possible kind of university and college you could imagine. I definitely kept a spreadsheet. That was the easiest way to have all the information in one place and to keep it organized for myself. Having that structure of seeing it organized like that definitely helped. In terms of trying to figure out where to go from there, I really just turned to tours, similar to Emily, and really just trying to figure out what stood out.

  [00:06:04] RI: For myself, it was mainly looking at just schools that were mainly in state, for me. So I was looking at mostly California schools, so I hardly really explored the Common App or Coalition App in that that process. But I was kind of mainly thinking about things that were just within my reach, but also like, in general, just within my comfort zone.

  [00:06:24] BT: Yeah. So it's a big range of numbers on your guys's different lists. And I know Gabe, you mentioned when you first started, your answer was, “Yes to everything.” So adding lots of things to that list. And so as you got to explore those different schools further, can you talk a little bit more about the experience of whittling it down? What were the kinds of things that you did to kind of decide this is in my “yes” pile, this is in my “no” pile.

  [00:06:47] EB: So I was actually very anti-visiting schools. I have no idea why, I cannot remember. But the summer before my senior year, my mom and I did a giant tour road trip. And I think we saw like nine different schools in a week — giant loop out here, the upstate New York, Pennsylvania area. And it got to the point where I could walk onto a school and I was like, “I just don't like the way this feels. I don't see myself here.” And I think listening just to my gut feeling was pretty important.

  Part of the reason I came to Bucknell, I love that all the buildings look the same. And as kind of silly as that is, it definitely meant a lot to me in terms of just that gut feeling of, “What do I like about this? What don't I like?” And I learned that it was just so helpful to get to go see that college in person anywhere I went, because I think that you can really get a vibe about what students here think.

  I remember going to school with my brother, and he was looking around and he’s like, “Why is everyone walking alone on campus? Don't they have friends?” And I would have never thought to think of that. And it's still something we joke about four years later, “Oh, remember the lonely school?” But that's something that you can really only get from going to visit schools. So I think if you have the opportunity, even just looking at schools nearby you, even if you're not interested, I think you can learn a lot.

  [00:08:14] GG: This was way before the era of virtual tours and virtual information sessions. And so for myself, the only way to really understand what a school was about was to be able to be on campus and to see what that vibe was like. I definitely placed a lot of emphasis on what it felt like to be on that tour. I didn't have the butterflies in the stomach, and unicorns, and rainbows feelings on any of those tours. But having that sense of how the students interacted —you can definitely tell what the feeling of what that vibe is. And similar to Emily, if there were students that were holding doors, that were more polite, that were happy and had a smile on their face, that definitely makes a difference. And maybe that's a little unfair if those students were having a bad day, but it definitely was something that was important to myself.

  [00:08:55] RI: When it came to exploring schools, in my realm, I was very lazy. I think I toured one school in my entire college touring process, and it wasn't even one that I applied to. But it was really cool and important for me to see pamphlets and online resources, even though like Gabe mentioned, it was kind of before the era of online offerings. But getting those pamphlets in the mail really did make a big difference for me and understanding like some of the basic information that a school has in a way that it's what they're putting out as being their best. And so that kind of gives you the information of how they present themselves, and how they go about doing them. And so I found those to be really helpful.

  And then just talking to people. Finding people that had connections to some school or another was really helpful in allowing me to really get to engage with people even if I wasn't able to travel.

  [00:09:44] BT: Was there anything about the materials that you're receiving that stood out to you in terms of, “Oh, this is something that I like, and this is something that I don't like.” I think it's really interesting that you really spent some time with that material.

  [00:09:55] RI: It’s almost superficial in the very beginning, where you you get that Notre Dame packet that's like 40 pages or something like that. And then you get like those little tiny packets from other schools. And I think seeing the way they go about overhyping themselves really plays a big role in how you see a school and how you fit into it. So I think that was a big impact on how I was like, “Hmm, this school really seems like it's not my kind of vibe for how they go about doing things and how they present themselves. So maybe I'll move that off my list.”

  [00:10:26] BW: That makes sense, talking about that feeling. And so Ryan, when you were going through those pamphlets — and Emily and Gabe, you guys talked a lot about the tour and the experience there — did you start to hear a lot of the same messages? Because when I've audited what other admissions offices are doing, a lot of us are saying the same things. We've got a great student to faculty ratio. We've got incredible hands-on classes, all these amazing extracurriculars. So how do you kind of cut through that first layer and really start to decide whether this school is going to be a good fit?

  [00:11:00] EB: Yeah, absolutely. I think people who come here are hearing a lot of the same things. I heard a lot of the same things. When I'm giving tours, I make a little joke. I'm like, “I definitely did the same loop you guys are all doing,” and it always gets a laugh because everyone knows that there's a cluster of the small liberal arts schools that are all saying the same things.

  I think one of the pros of that is I learned a lot. At each school, I learned to ask about writing a thesis or doing undergraduate research. And so then I could take that with me to other schools as I went. But I think kind of getting that real feel, I talked to students. If I knew anyone who had gone to the school, I’d be like, “Oh, well, my tour guide said that they have a great relationship with their professors. And sometimes they host class at their house. Is that true?” And then when my friend is like, “I've never heard of that happening,” I was like, “Oh, okay, this is just something that they're saying.” And I think these actual student stories were really important to me just to get a real feel for the community.

  And, really, I think that rings true. You really are hard-pressed to find students who don't want to talk about their school and say what they like about it and also be honest. And I think that was definitely a huge impact for me in terms of just looking past the pamphlet, and the tour, and all the facts and figures of the information, and figuring out what the actual experience for students was like.

  [00:12:32] GG: I definitely heard a lot of the same things at different schools. I oftentimes felt very overwhelmed by the numbers that were getting thrown out — all the statistics of the student faculty ratio, and the class size, and all of these things. And my biggest advice to students that are taking a tour is to ignore those numbers. At the end of the day, those numbers are on the website. They wouldn't be telling them to you if they were bad. But they also don't necessarily reflect your experience.

  Even at Bucknell, the average class size of someone in bio is very different than someone who's in comparative humanities. And those average class sizes not only includes those same minors that are both in arts and sciences, but also engineering and management. Every course that Bucknell offers, from a senior design that has two students to an entry-level econ that has 35. And so to get a better understanding of how that affects you, I would try to reach out to students that are in your major, that are part of the clubs that you want to be a part of, that are doing activities that you know that you want to do in college. Because trying to process those numbers that are getting thrown at you, even if you can remember them, they're definitely not reflective of what your experience will be like. And it's a lot harder to quantify and to qualify what a number looks like, rather than those direct experiences.

  I really tried to see myself at these schools. I’d look around and realize this is something that someone here is doing, and that's something that I could be doing. The biggest reason why I really struggled to narrow that list down in high school when I was applying was because, in my brain, I put this giant divide between this is what I'm doing in high school, but this is what my life will be like in college. And what if I can't be part of this club because I have this other commitment? And what if I am too busy doing this thing that I can't be a part of this in college? And it took me a really long time to realize that your college experience is whatever you make of it, because we're not within the same four walls from 7 a.m. until 3 p.m. going to class, and study hall, and the cafeteria. The time that you're not sitting in the classroom is the time that you have to make for yourself, and you make of that time what you want to.

  And so once I realized that if there's a school with opportunities, I can accomplish those things. That made me a lot more eager to listen to the different opportunities and resources that are available on campus. I realized that I could be taking advantage of them and not just passing on them because I didn't think that I would have time to or something like that.

  [00:14:43] RI: I would definitely say that when it came to trying to get through the noise and clutter of different schools and different promos that each of them have, was me looking at what was unique that they offered that really made them stand out for some reason or another. I really liked going to schools and following things that like are just atypical. You get to explore something that you never would have thought about, or there's something there that you would never would have been able to do unless you would have gone there.

  So I really looked at [those] schools and looked for that little spark of energy and joy that someone talking about that school or about that program had for that thing. So I think about Engineering 100 and Management 101 here at Bucknell. All the students that take those courses are always talking about it whenever they like talk to new prospective students, or whenever they're just out and about, or like rehashing old memories. And so those kind of experiences really stand out for a student that, like me, really wants to see something that's happening, where it's unique to you [and] it's something that excites you and drives you. Those are what really made me see through the clutter of the people just talking about stats, and ratios, and things like that that really matter but don't matter when you're trying to see if you're a good fit for that place.

  [00:15:56] BT: Yeah, that emphasis on experience and picking up on one of the kinds of things that are going to make your four years there are super important. And I like that advice about how to navigate those numbers that are being thrown at you. And I'm curious, for those of you who did a lot of visits, any other pieces of advice for students who are going to be navigating visiting colleges based on some of the specific things that you were looking at?

  [00:16:16] EB: Yeah, I would just really pay attention to the students. I think that that's a huge thing. I definitely went on a couple visits, and if you can't even get through the tour, you're probably not going to want to live there for four years. There were definitely tours I went on and I was like, “Get me off of this.” I think I even left my mom, and I left a tour early one time because it was just not…it was not happening. I can't imagine being a tour guide and having someone leave halfway through.

  
  I do think it's important to take that into consideration when you're visiting a school: “Is this where I want to be for the next four years? Is this a place that I can see myself living and finding a part in this community?” And those are definitely important questions that people should ask themselves when they're visiting.

  [00:17:04] GG: I toured 23 schools, which was an insane number. My dad was way beyond patient with me. But my best advice is to write down everything. If you're taking the time to travel and to spend two hours on the tour, and the info session, and walking around campus, take the 15, 20 minutes and write down everything you can remember. Because, especially as that number gets so high, looking back, I can't remember which library was on which campus. I can't remember who had what resource, and what student talked about this. But the things I do remember are the things that I wrote down, and I could go back to reference everything from my tour guide’s name, what they were wearing, to help spark any memories in terms of, “Oh, yeah, that was the school where they were wearing a blue jacket” — something like that. And anything that was important to me, and anything that I didn't think would be important.

  You don't really realize what you want to pay attention to until it's after the fact and you're trying to remember what's from where. So anything that you can remember is worth writing down. You're not going to get mad at yourself for having too much information. You'll get frustrated when you don't have enough information about something that you saw that you liked. And in that moment, you might not know what the implications of all of that information is, you might not understand what that would mean for you and your experience. But it's always helpful to be able to have that to look back on. Because you'll never, like I said, you’ll never feel bad about having it.

  [00:18:20] RI: And then I would just say, from the campus I did visit formerly on a tour, it was just really interesting to see like how you structure your day when you go to these campus visits really do matter. I definitely recommend don't just show up and then leave right away. I think it's really important to kind of get a sense of what the general area’s kind of vibe is and how you might see yourself fitting into it. So maybe like stay an extra 30 minutes in the neighborhood, or in a town, or like eat in the neighborhood that the school is in. It really makes a big impact on how you might see yourself actually fitting in, I think, in that climate and in that environment.

  [00:18:54] BW: That's really great advice. So far, we've talked about all the stages to get you to actually starting to fill out those applications. So did you have a strategy for trying to hit a certain number of schools or a certain percentage of the ones that you had on your list? And what kinds of schools that you apply to? Where they all have one type — public, private, big, small? I'm really interested in that process and what kind of elevated a school from, “I'm considering that one” to, “Yes, I'm going to take the time to actually write the essays and fill out the questions and apply.”

  [00:19:25] EB: Yeah, I think every single school that I applied to I visited, and that was huge in terms of just narrowing it down once there. But my original paper list, now looking back, it feels all over the place. And I was so convinced at first that I wanted to go to a giant school with a giant football team, and when it came time to do the Common App and to write the supplemental essays, I could not be bothered to. I did not want to sit down and write them. I had no answers for what they were saying. And I think that that was a huge sign for me. I was like, “Why do you not care to do this? Why do you not want to do it so badly?” Because even though the admissions process can be daunting and it can be stressful, if you don't even want to write the essay, you probably don't want to go to the school.

  And I ended up, just from the visits, I looked at a couple bigger schools we drove by. I just started to kind of narrow it down that way, and then I do feel like my final list was very similar schools with about 2,000 to 4,000 kids. I went to a high school that was 2,500, so I definitely had a good idea. I was like, “2,000 might be too small, but I want a little bit bigger than I had in high school.” And I kind of based it off of that. I would say I looked up a few different types of schools, but when it came down to it, my list was pretty consistent. And I guess the general piece of advice is that for every school you love, there definitely is another school that's similar, and it's worth checking out those other schools that kind of occupy the niche that you're interested in.

  [00:21:08] GG: For myself, I applied to 10 schools, and all but one of them are schools that I had toured at one point or another. It was still a range of everything; I had liberal arts schools, I had business schools. They were all relatively small; I think the biggest one I had was about 16,000 in terms of undergraduate size, and the smallest was about 2,500 — so ranging from small to small-medium size. Like I said before, the biggest thing that I did was really tried to see where I could see myself, and so all of these schools are places that I could see myself going to and also being proud of going there. I wanted to be at a school where, when I came home for a break and I saw friends and family that asked where I was going, I'd be proud to tell them this is where I'm going to school, this is where I'm studying, this is what I'm doing. So that was important to me as well, to be proud of where I was going. And that really connected to where I saw myself fitting in, where I saw myself being successful.

  On these tours, you always hear these stories of students that are accomplishing this, and this, and that. And I always thought that these are like the top 10 students at this university who are actually doing research, who are actually getting their name in the media. And then, like I said, once I realized that that really can happen to any student, and you don't have to be the top 10 in the entire school to do something or to accomplish something, I really was able to see myself at these different places. And that definitely helped me with narrowing down my list of where I wanted to apply.

  [00:22:27] RI: When I was going through the process…so I ultimately ended up only applying to seven colleges, and six of them are California schools. And so just an important note is that California state schools and universities are actually on a different timeline than the Common App. They're actually doing month earlier in November. It is a little different, and you actually only write one essay for all four, which is kind of cool. And so my process kind of just entailed eliminating down the eight or so UCs that they were into four, because that's how many financial aid gave me for free. That was kind of the process I went through of like whittling down the ones that had my specific opportunities I wanted to pursue in engineering, but also the research and resources that I wanted to have available to me. Ultimately, like Emily said, a Common App can be kind of annoying when it comes to writing supplementals. And it served as like a break for me not wanting to go and apply for more Common App schools. But I ultimately applied to just Bucknell early, so luckily I only had to write once.

  But I definitely think that looking at schools that may be your interest and only focusing on those in your applications can be a detriment to yourself in the sense of like, “I only looked at big schools with at least like 40,000 students in a city, not rural.” And look where I ended up. I ended up at Bucknell University with like 3,500 students, middle of [Pennsylvania]. Exact opposite of what I thought I wanted, but it was exactly what I wanted. So I think it's always important to look for those side opportunities that you might not initially think of because they can be your best opportunities.

  [00:23:58] EB: I wish I would have kept the mindset that it's all going to work out in the end. There're definitely some points that were super stressful. And I needed to remember that there are opinions that matter and there are opinions that don't. And I definitely felt for a while that there’s one decision to be made, and it had to be perfect, and I was making a huge mistake if something didn't work out. And I remember feeling like I was the only one that knew.

  And I would go to all the schools with my mom, and I wish I would have listened sometimes when she added her comments or said things because she went to a huge city school. And one of the things that she would say to me, she's like, “You have the rest of your life to live in a city.” And I say this on all my tours because I don't think I thought about that as much. And now, looking back and about to graduate and move to a city, I wish I would have taken into consideration how your four years can be so different depending on your location. And it obviously worked out with how it was. But that wasn't something that I was really thinking about at all when I was looking.

  [00:25:10] BT: Yeah. And in the end, you all kind of chose that Bucknell would be your fit, whether or not that aligned with what you thought you wanted in the beginning. And looking back on the journey that you took to get here, is there anything that you wish you would have done differently during the process, or better?

  [00:25:24] GG: I wished I was a little more proactive in terms of asking for help, I guess. If you haven't picked up on it by now, I was very confused throughout the entire process. Definitely felt lost for a lot of it. And it wasn't that I didn't have resources and people around me that were more than willing to support me, and to talk to me, and to help me through this process. But I just didn't reach out. I didn't ask for help. And, of course, people can't help you if they don't know that you need it. So I wish I definitely asked, whether my parents, my college counselor, friends that were upperclassmen that had gone through the process, and gotten their opinion on how to navigate this. I know I was definitely not the first person in the world who felt like I did. And I know I definitely won't be the last. There're a lot of people out there willing to support you. You just have to ask.

  [00:26:08] RI: I would say that one of the things I wish I had changed is actually being more proactive and trying to get to those campus visits like Gabe and Emily were able to do. I wish I would have listened to my mom when she was like, “Let's go to college today,” or something like that. And I just was like, “No, I want to sit on the couch and do nothing.” It is something you should take advantage of when your parents do engage with you in that level.

  And I also think just making sure that you're on top of your writing process and getting those supplementals and your essays done. I wrote my Common App in a week before it was due —worst decision of my life. It's really important to really get ahead of it so that you can really devote the time that's needed to making the right decision for your own good and for your own sake, finding the school that is your own fit. So I definitely would have improved on that part.

  [00:26:55] BW: That's great. So finally, if you don't mind sharing, whether you were lucky enough to get admitted to more than one school, how did you end up making that final decision?

  [00:27:06] EB: Yeah, I mean, for me, really it came down to like a gut feeling. I got it in my head, I was like, “Bucknell is the place that I want to go.” And I obviously, of the schools I applied to, had kind of a ranking in my mind of where I would prefer to end up how these schools measured up against each other. So for me, it just came down to that. “I like this one the best. I've known the whole time.” It was obviously nice to see other positive letters come in, but it didn't really change the fact that where I wanted to be was Bucknell.

  [00:27:44] GG: Mine was definitely a gut feeling as well, but it also came down to opportunities, I think. I knew that I want to go into sports management coming into college, and Bucknell was the place where I felt like I could get opportunities like that as soon as I got here as a first-year. And I knew that there were some other schools on my list that might not have those opportunities until I was a junior or a senior. And that was really important to me to be able to do what I wanted to do as soon as I wanted to do it, and to not have to wait until I had that prestige to be in those positions.

  I forgot who said it on this call, but someone mentioned how on a tour, they like randomly pulled someone aside. And I definitely recommend doing that if you're on a tour, if you're on campus somewhere. Of course, anyone who’s getting the tour loves that school. of course, they probably wouldn't have that job. But if you find a student walking past who looks like they're willing to talk, just tap on the shoulder and ask, “What do you think of the school? Do you like it here? What's your favorite part?” And get that raw perspective. And that really gives you a sense of what the vibe is like on that campus. It gives you a sense of how the student population feels as a whole. Because on a tour, you really are subjected to a single perspective. And so if you've taken the time to drive to that school, it definitely doesn't hurt to ask as many people as you can and see how everyone really feels as a whole.

  [00:28:54] RI: I would definitely say just, if you're the type of person that enjoys taking a leap, like just jumping into something new or a new experience, just do something and follow something that it's going to be a school that is really interesting to you, and something that you know you'll pursue aggressively, and take advantage of everything that you can in the moment.

  And so like I took leaps of faith between middle school and high school, and then again between high school and college. I got into the bigger schools in the cities that I wanted to go to. But I really just…At the end of it, it really was, “Do I want to have an experience in college that won't be the typical one?” I don't want to go to a school where I'm one of 40,000 stories, and I'm just lost. I want to be at a school where I can be a part of it but also be a part of my own experience. And so I definitely just think finding the one that fits you is the best choice, but also just finding one that you think you can thrive at really will be life changing, I think for you.

  [00:29:49] BT: Well, I think those are some great pieces of advice to leave this episode of College Admissions Insider. Emily, Gabe and Ryan, thanks so much for sharing your experiences with us.

  [00:29:58] EB: Thank you.

  [00:29:59] GG: So good to talk to you guys.

  [00:30:00] RI: It was great. Thank you.

  [00:30:02] BW: And thanks to you for listening. We'd love it if you rate subscribe, share, do all that stuff to get this podcast to your friends and family.

  [00:30:09] BT: Also, if you're listening to College Admissions Insider through your web browser, we would love for you to subscribe using your favorite podcast app. Just search for College Admissions Insider wherever you listen to podcasts.

  [00:30:20] BW: We'll be back with another new episode in just two weeks. In the meantime, we'd love to hear from you. You can send any questions or comments to podcast@bucknell.edu. We read every email you send. So please send away.

  [00:30:34] BT: And finally, you can follow Bucknell on all of these socials @BucknellU on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and YouTube. You can also follow our student-run Instagram account, which is @iamraybucknell. You can find all those links in the show notes below.

  [00:30:48] BW: Okay, that's it for us. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.